Difference between revisions of "Talk:Christianity"

From New_Message_from_God_Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
(original content is virtually reduced to editorial direction)
Line 2: Line 2:
  
 
==New Testament==
 
==New Testament==
−
 
−
 
 
===Gospels===
 
===Gospels===
 
====Matthew====
 
====Matthew====
Line 11: Line 9:
 
  "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves." (Mt. 10:16)  
 
  "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves." (Mt. 10:16)  
 
"Do not underestimate the power of the world. The Wise do not do this." (Wisdom II, chap 12: Self-Expression and the Mental Environment)--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST)
 
"Do not underestimate the power of the world. The Wise do not do this." (Wisdom II, chap 12: Self-Expression and the Mental Environment)--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST)
−
 
  
 
  the parable of the seed and the sower (Mt. 13).
 
  the parable of the seed and the sower (Mt. 13).
Line 24: Line 21:
  
 
====Mark====
 
====Mark====
−
search "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" on the wiki. (Mark 4, Isaiah 6?)--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 20:16, 2 December 2012 (PST)
+
"eyes to see" and "ears to hear". (Mark 4, Isaiah 6?)--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 20:16, 2 December 2012 (PST)
  
−
Mt. 13 & Mark 4 responses to "why everything is in parables" -- relates to the Veil of the Messenger and has something to do with the experiential aspect of Knowing and Seeing--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 19:25, 4 January 2013 (PST)
+
Mt. 13 & Mark 4 responses to "why everything is in parables" --The Veil of the Messenger and Knowing and Seeing--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 19:25, 4 January 2013 (PST)
  
 
====Luke====
 
====Luke====
 
  "For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:45-48)  
 
  "For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:45-48)  
−
"In the Greater Community, intelligence is the desire,the willingness and the capacity to learn and to adapt." (Wisdom II, chap 13: Intelligence). [Beginner's mind, from Buddhism?] relevant but not parallel--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST)
+
Relevant but not parallel: "In the Greater Community, intelligence is the desire,the willingness and the capacity to learn and to adapt." (Wisdom II, chap 13: Intelligence). [Beginner's mind, from Buddhism?] Somewhat relevant but not parallel: the burden of the developed world to carry the NM,  being on threshold of GC, the nature of crossing developmental thresholds in general, how they lead to the next level of beginner; how the greater the influence, the greater the impact of error --[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 18:13, 27 July 2013 (PDT)
 +
 
 
===Epistles===
 
===Epistles===
−
====Romans====
 
−
8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
 
−
See Wisdom I, chap 15 (?): Giving I "Life bends to those who give ..." As long as the condition applies, ''to them who are called according to his purpose''," this belief is validated, but the implication of the Christian statement is exclusive instead of inviting, like a magical formula or a test. The NM version speaks from a more sophisticated point of view about the world and the forces in the world--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 20:16, 2 December 2012 (PST)
 
−
 
−
7:14-19 "We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing."
 
−
Step 102: "There is much I must unlearn." Big difference between the two points of view; Paul's view more static, not going anywhere, whereas along the Way of Knowledge, this experience diminishes with practice. For Paul's "sin" would we substitute "cultural influence" or "personal preference"? Cf. step 45 Practice: " With your eyes open, concentrate now on your limitations. Recognize them. Do not judge them as good or bad. Simply recognize them... If you are defending your limitations, how can you receive that which transcends them?" Paul's expression of frustration cries out for this Step: simply face them one by one, man! --[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 08:39, 11 December 2012 (PST)
 
−
 
−
2:28-20 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
 
−
WORK NEEDED but this ties to God does not care what religion you belong to or if you even believe in God or not. This also ties to 1 Samuel 16:7b "God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart." --[[User:Mitch|Mitch]] 17:35, 16 December 2012 (PST) I copied the OT reference below --[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 19:25, 4 January 2013 (PST)
 
−
 
−
====Corinthians====
 
−
The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" I Cor. 12:21
 
−
 
−
====Hebrews====
 
−
13:2 "Do not neglect to show hospitality, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."
 
  
 
====1 Thessalonians====
 
====1 Thessalonians====
 
  1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing
 
  1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing
−
--Brother Lawrence's ''Practicing the Presence of God'' -- [Patricia] was given this strong, thundering directive sometime ago: "Be in a state of Continual Prayer."  [http://newmessage.org/forum/showthread.php/2220-Campfire-Chat-Transcript-2012-12-01?p=8431#post8431 see campfire chat 12/1/12] [[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 08:29, 1 December 2012 (PST)  
+
--Brother Lawrence's ''Practicing the Presence of God'' -- [Patricia]'s directive: "Be in a state of Continual Prayer."  [http://newmessage.org/forum/showthread.php/2220-Campfire-Chat-Transcript-2012-12-01?p=8431#post8431 see campfire chat 12/1/12] [[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 08:29, 1 December 2012 (PST)  
  
−
  1st Thesalonians 5:18; "Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you.  see Joy & Gratitude --[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 09:49, 1 December 2012 (PST)
+
  1st Thesalonians 5:18; "Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you.   
 +
See Joy & Gratitude --[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 09:49, 1 December 2012 (PST)
 
==Old Testament==
 
==Old Testament==
 
===History===
 
===History===
  
−
Young Samuel listening.
+
The Voice speaking to child Samuel.
  
 
  1 Samuel 16:7b "God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."
 
  1 Samuel 16:7b "God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."
Line 66: Line 50:
 
===Wisdom===
 
===Wisdom===
 
  "Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,  And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom." (Psalm 51:6, NASB)--[[User:Mitch|Mitch]] 17:35, 16 December 2012 (PST)
 
  "Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,  And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom." (Psalm 51:6, NASB)--[[User:Mitch|Mitch]] 17:35, 16 December 2012 (PST)
−
  "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6, KJV)
+
   
−
The Way of Knowledge, inward and outward honesty (the truth), being present to life and not in our imagination is the ONLY way to God. There is no other. --[[User:Mitch|Mitch]] 17:35, 16 December 2012 (PST)
 
−
 
 
 
====Proverbs====
 
====Proverbs====
  
 
  "Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed, than to share plunder with the proud" (Proverbs 16:19, NIV)  
 
  "Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed, than to share plunder with the proud" (Proverbs 16:19, NIV)  
−
see the teachings "the New Message for the Impoverished and Oppressed" and "The New Message for the Political Leaders of the world." Also "The Age of Women."--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 19:12, 1 December 2012 (PST)
+
see the teachings "the New Message for the Impoverished and Oppressed" and "The New Message for the Political Leaders of the world." Also "The Age of Women." See wiki on poverty: anything beyond our needs is stealing from those who have not enough--[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 18:13, 27 July 2013 (PDT)
−
 
 
−
==Where the NM diverges from the Biblical tradition==
 
−
 
 
−
No heaven or hell.
 
−
 
 
−
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!" Galatians 1: 6-9
 
−
 
 
−
The New Message from God is not here to displace the ancient traditions or the world. On the contrary, it is here to enhance and strengthen the world's great faith traditions so that humanity can safely navigate the great waves of change that are here and to come. Jesus came with a great message for his time and the new message is here for our time. (markb)
 
−
 
 
−
If you read the Galatians verse to be true for all time, and not just for the recipients of the letter at the time it was written, you would have to shut out any possibility that God could speak again. You would be in the position of the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day. --[[User:Mary s|Mary s]] 13:07, 29 January 2013 (PST)
 
−
 
 
−
==What the NM offers==
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
You must take
 
−
the steps to
 
−
Knowledge
 
−
and learn what they are,
 
−
how they work
 
−
and where they take you.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 34. This is exactly what is missing from Christianity. If recording devices had been in the time of Jesus, perhaps the Steps might have been delivered then. Oral transmission hampered the Message of His time, big time.
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
;The NM offends Christian beliefs
 
−
:regarding the divinity and atonement of Christ, i.e., the person and work of Jesus.
 
−
:regarding the miracles of Jesus
 
−
;The NM appreciates
 
−
:that Christianity kept Knowledge alive in the world
 
−
:the experience of that witness to Knowledge as the movement of the Holy Spirit
 
−
:the calling of the disciples and their immediate response
 
−
== NM texts in search of Christian expression ==
 
−
 
 
−
To meet
 
−
a great need,
 
−
you need
 
−
great incentive,
 
−
you need
 
−
great preparation
 
−
and you need
 
−
great companions
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap 14
 
−
 
 
−
To have a greater life,
 
−
to have a greater mind
 
−
and to have a greater
 
−
set of relationships,
 
−
you must pass through
 
−
the great thresholds.
 
−
 
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap 16: Thresholds. "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful." 2 Tim. 4:7.[Not so close: put above in N.T. origins with citations on destiny and purpose: "However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me--the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace." Acts 20:24. Searching the NT for "running the race" brings up an interesting variety of Bible verses, very much relevant to Thresholds
 
−
 
 
−
Learning how
 
−
others view you
 
−
gives you a
 
−
reference point
 
−
and an idea of
 
−
how you must
 
−
cultivate your abilities
 
−
and what you
 
−
must achieve.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap 17: Visitor's Perceptions of Humanity. The concept of the alien, the stranger. ["Do not neglect to show hospitality for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." (Heb. 13:2) with a lot of "be wise as serpents" thrown in.] Important entryway to concept of aliens. Do consider the Mormon and the Muslim views of E.T. life.
 
−
 
 
−
Compassion
 
−
is choosing
 
−
a greater response
 
−
to a greater problem.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap 18. I mean, really, for all that ''could'' be found in the Bible about compassion, is there anything there so clear and concise? The chapter is about the need to unite facing GWC and emergence into GC.
 
−
 
 
−
It is facing the world
 
−
rather than
 
−
seeking escape.
 
−
That is what generates
 
−
courage.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap 19. MVS: the direct way is the best way.
 
−
 
 
−
In order to learn,
 
−
you must
 
−
associate with those
 
−
more advanced
 
−
and with those
 
−
less advanced
 
−
than you.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 20: Learning from Others. The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" I Cor. 12:21
 
−
 
 
−
[Perhaps the transmission of the faith/Apostolic Succession/ the rite of baptism/catechism? No, these traditions do not demonstrate the pure simplicity of the statement. The cloistering of religious would seem to be its antithesis of this as a retreat from the population at large who are not so interested in getting up the mountain, who are more about survival and gratification. Was it necessary over those centuries for religious to retreat ... to avoid being trampled? Is it different now that we have been given huge assistance in The GC Way of Knowledge? Being wise as serpents is now our strong hand.]
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
 
 
−
It is generally held
 
−
in the Greater Community
 
−
that should a race spoil its
 
−
natural environment,
 
−
then others are free
 
−
to intervene
 
−
and to displace them.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 25:Environments. OT law?
 
−
 
 
−
If you minimize
 
−
conflict in the world
 
−
and in yourself,
 
−
conflict is minimized.
 
−
If you avoid
 
−
conflict in yourself
 
−
and in the world,
 
−
conflict grows.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 26: Conflict
 
−
 
 
−
Doubt what is doubtful.
 
−
Trust what is certain.
 
−
Doubt what is temporary.
 
−
Trust what is permanent.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 27
 
−
 
 
−
You are
 
−
right in the middle
 
−
of the
 
−
Greater Community.
 
−
It is here.
 
−
Your isolation is over.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 28. Plato's Allegory of the Cave. We have been visited for a long time. ufos painted into religious art, for instance, the Anunciation?
 
−
 
 
−
True inspiration
 
−
arises when you are
 
−
engaged in the world
 
−
in a purposeful way.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 29
 
−
 
 
−
How we
 
−
regard you
 
−
is a model
 
−
for how you
 
−
can regard others.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 30  John 13:34 "As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”
 
−
 
 
−
Concentration
 
−
is an act of giving
 
−
yourself to something.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 31. Create a dictionary ... terms from the Steps Concordance with cultural references and religious.
 
−
 
 
−
Pride
 
−
is a compensation.
 
−
It is something
 
−
you give yourself
 
−
to make up
 
−
for something
 
−
that is lost.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 32. The dictionary entries for Christian views of pride will go on endlessly. More NM aspects will need to be drawn in order to match the preponderance of concern with pride in the Christian tradition
 
−
 
 
−
If you
 
−
stop climbing,
 
−
you don’t
 
−
get up
 
−
the mountain.
 
−
::::Wisdom II, chap. 33. Is there anything in Christianity that subtracts any weight at all from the massive emphasis on Jesus paying the price, his atoning work covering the sin, his name the ticket to get into heaven. The rescue of His return, OT expectation of the Messiah, the deliver, all of this that lets everyone off the hook. Am I exaggerating?
 

Revision as of 01:13, 28 July 2013


New Testament

Gospels

Matthew

"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." (Mt. 6:21)

"Money is a resource that serves your motives.It demonstrates what you value. (Wisdom II, chap. 22: Money).--Mary s 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST) 

"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves." (Mt. 10:16)

"Do not underestimate the power of the world. The Wise do not do this." (Wisdom II, chap 12: Self-Expression and the Mental Environment)--Mary s 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST) 

the parable of the seed and the sower (Mt. 13).

If you stop climbing, you don’t get up the mountain. (Wisdom II, chap. 33). [Patricia: "You can lose your studenthood."] 

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it." ("Mt. 13:45, 46)

"When people are devoted,they give their lives to things.It is not a sacrifice to do that. It would be a greater sacrifice not to." (Wisdom II, chap. 21: Devotion & Commitment)--Mary s 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST) 

"By their fruits ye shall know them," (Mt. 7:16)

The truth of any relationship can be known at the outset. (Wisdom II, chap 6: Discernment) --Mary s 07:37, 6 January 2013 (PST)

Mark

"eyes to see" and "ears to hear". (Mark 4, Isaiah 6?)--Mary s 20:16, 2 December 2012 (PST)

Mt. 13 & Mark 4 responses to "why everything is in parables" --The Veil of the Messenger and Knowing and Seeing--Mary s 19:25, 4 January 2013 (PST)

Luke

"For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:45-48)

Relevant but not parallel: "In the Greater Community, intelligence is the desire,the willingness and the capacity to learn and to adapt." (Wisdom II, chap 13: Intelligence). [Beginner's mind, from Buddhism?] Somewhat relevant but not parallel: the burden of the developed world to carry the NM, being on threshold of GC, the nature of crossing developmental thresholds in general, how they lead to the next level of beginner; how the greater the influence, the greater the impact of error --Mary s 18:13, 27 July 2013 (PDT)

Epistles

1 Thessalonians

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing

--Brother Lawrence's Practicing the Presence of God -- [Patricia]'s directive: "Be in a state of Continual Prayer." see campfire chat 12/1/12 Mary s 08:29, 1 December 2012 (PST) 

1st Thesalonians 5:18; "Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you.

See Joy & Gratitude --Mary s 09:49, 1 December 2012 (PST)

Old Testament

History

The Voice speaking to child Samuel. 

1 Samuel 16:7b "God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."

Prophecy

Isaiah 6: "Here am I, send me."

--Step 366!

Wisdom

"Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,  And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom." (Psalm 51:6, NASB)--Mitch 17:35, 16 December 2012 (PST)

Proverbs

"Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed, than to share plunder with the proud" (Proverbs 16:19, NIV)

see the teachings "the New Message for the Impoverished and Oppressed" and "The New Message for the Political Leaders of the world." Also "The Age of Women." See wiki on poverty: anything beyond our needs is stealing from those who have not enough--Mary s 18:13, 27 July 2013 (PDT)

Retrieved from "http://www.wiki.newmessage.org/mediawiki/en/w/index.php?title=Talk:Christianity&oldid=4358"